Nateque Mahmood's OER Story: Building Futures Construction Careers Collection

(upbeat music)

LAUREN: Hello and welcome to Stories of Openness,

a limited series podcast created by the Open Education team

at Deakin University Library.

My name is Lauren Halcomb-Smith and I'm your host.

I'm a lecturer of Open Education at Deakin

and I'm on a mission to learn about the impact

that open educational resources or OER are having

on learning and teaching at Deakin.

OER are free textbooks and other learning material

that anyone can use, adapt and share.

which is unlike traditional textbooks,

which can be expensive and limited

by copyright and licensing restrictions.

In this series, I'm talking with Deakin academics

as they share their stories of creating

and using open resources. This

podcast is part of a research project that

uses podcasting as a research methodology. So

this conversation is both a podcast and

open research data. I

am coming to you today from the beautiful traditional

and unceded lands of the Boonwurrung people. I

gratefully acknowledge them as their traditional custodians of

these lands, seas, and skies, and

recognize that this has been a place of

learning, teaching, and rich conversation for millennia. My

guest today is Dr. Nateque Mahmood, Associate

Professor and Head of Discipline of

Construction Management in Deakin's School of

Architecture and Built Environment. Nateque

is exactly the kind of person you

want teaching our future construction managers, one

with hands on professional experience.

Nateque comes to his teaching and research work

with over 14 years as a professional civil engineer.

And in 2025, Nateque and a team of fellow academics

published Building Futures, a video

based open educational

resource. And I'm particularly excited about my

conversation with Nateque today because this is the

first multimedia based OER that we have had on

the podcast.

Welcome, Nateque. NATEQUE: Thanks, Lauren,

for having me. LAUREN: Thanks for being

here with me today. I want to kick us off with a little

bit of a backstory. I'd love for you to tell me how you

came to be involved

in the OER world. NATEQUE: It's interesting because the

idea didn't come from

a single moment. It really developed over the

years of conversations

with the students. As an educator

in construction management, I was constantly hearing

students ask questions about

their future careers. They wanted to know

what opportunities existed, what employers

were looking for, and how they could position

themselves for success. What struck me the most of

all these questions coming from students at all stages

of their degree, not just

those close to graduation. I remember thinking that we

do really good job

of teaching technical knowledge, but students do not

always get the understanding of how the knowledge

translates into a career. They need to be able to

see the bigger picture that sometimes they don't

see at the beginning at the end

of their degree. So when the

opportunities came up to develop an

OER grant proposal, it felt like a natural

fit for us where we develop a series

of career videos for our

construction management students. We wanted to create something that

students could access whenever

they needed it, whether they were in

their first semester or

their last semester, trying to

understand the industry, or preparing for

the employment opportunities. The idea was simple:

bring together advice from industry professionals,

alumni and academics and package it in a way

that's accessible, practical and relevant for

our students. We wanted students to hear real stories from

real people and begin thinking about

their careers as an ongoing journey rather

than something they only worry about at the end of

their degree. LAUREN: If I'm understanding

you correctly, Nateque, you and your students were

facing a challenge. You saw a gap, and

then this opportunity to create an

OER came up. It was a natural fit

for a problem you were already

trying to solve, or you were

perhaps already thinking about how you

might solve it. NATEQUE: Exactly, Lauren.

On top of it, I would like

to give you another background. We tried different ways before coming

to a year grant because we are looking

for resources for our students from

an Australian construction management background. But most

of these textbooks or books that we refer to are from

either from UK or from USA.

So it's very difficult to contextualise

from Australian context point of view because

the role descriptions and the title of the

role even different to different countries. So we thought that,

okay, it's a good opportunity for us to create

a video series where they can learn from real

people who are part of this

journey and they get that through them and

that would be most useful for them. LAUREN:

And what made you and the

team decide to do a video-based collection? NATEQUE:

That is most challenging part of our end. But

at the same time, we decided on that

because we can access these videos from anywhere at any point

of time. Because we are going

to share the experience, lived experience of professionals, the

best way to create that is through videos. Engaging them

with the students is another layer of challenge

because students always looking for

something very short. They want something very visual. And

we thought that, okay, let's make a video

or make series of videos for our students where

they can see the opportunities. of their

career after graduation or even before their graduation. LAUREN: So

tell us a little bit about the collection itself. NATEQUE:

We started a series of videos,

keeping that in mind that construction industry is quite wide.

So we initially break it down into three

different sections, means we targeted first the commercial construction sector

in that first video series, which we

developed in 2024. And there were nine

actually participants involved in this

video series from commercial sector at different

roles, starting from just to

entry level position, construction estimator

to the construction director position. We

captured those different views, aspects, role, descriptions

of those people and how they travel over the years.

Of course, they have not

a specific pathway they follow, because

within construction industry can follow

different pathways to get into different

point of time. And that's reassuring

for the students. So that's our first career videos. And

then in second year, while we see the success

of our first attempt, we feel that,

OK, let's move on and develop

a series video series, career education series

videos for our

students and within the context of residential construction.

Again, 10 participations there and we again talk

about entry level positions

to the top-level position in that residential

sector. And they all share the similar views

of that we shared from the commercial construction.

We use exactly same type of questions so the

students can see the context quite clearly. They share

their views in there

with the role title, role descriptions,

how they come to that position,

what are the skill sets and

qualifications to come to this particular role,

what are the critical skills that they need

to move forward and what are

their plan to get to the next level. But as time

progresses, as we get up

to the ladder to the higher-level positions,

probably you need more

people management skills, communication

skills, leadership skills. So students start understanding and they actually

looking at from point of

view where are the strength lies and where the pathways

for them to look for. That's

how their mindset been changed rather than

applying to every other jobs rather

than focusing on specific pathways

and strengthen their career profile. LAUREN: And so each video

is between 5 and 10 minutes and I think there's

about

10 videos in each collection? NATEQUE:

Yes. LAUREN: And they are so beautifully

produced. I was just watching them this morning and I'm once again

blown away by the quality of the production.

I can only imagine what a valuable resource this

must be for you and for your

students to be able to

show them something that is so professionally produced. Can you tell

us a little more about

how you went about

creating the videos, interviewing

these industry professionals

and hearing their stories? NATEQUE: Great questions,

Lauren. And I didn't do it by

myself because I've been working

with a team of

professional staff, my colleagues, Digital Learning Futures

team, also from Deakin Library support team.

They actually helped me to develop this, initially for the

first year I'm talking about in 2024.

I have no understanding, very less understanding, I would say,

regarding how we actually create an

environment where we can record that particular

session in terms of quality

of the productions. And Digital Learning Futures

team helped me immensely

to create that environment and gives me enough confidence. So

the team helped me to

create that environment, managing the equipment and resources. And

we went through a number of

sessions before even we have that interview sessions.

We tried to create that environment,

the background, and also the camera settings, the corner, and

also how we address to our

participants the questions. So those are all

been highlighted, practiced before even we start that session.

That helps our participants as well in

a way because we share the

questionnaire beforehand so that they have

good understanding what they're going to cover and

they want to bring some practical experience

while they're talking in that particular

session. We also give them the opportunity

to tailor some of the

context without again providing detailed information

to certain people or certain company. That helps in a

way that they can freely talk

to any perspective of their journey. What struck me the

most is the level of contributions

for each individual, from

my colleagues, from the participants

themselves, also the DLF team

and Deakin Library

team, how they actually support me. It's really

fantastic. Without their support,

it wouldn't be that successful. LAUREN: That's so wonderful

to hear, and it's actually something that

I'm hearing a lot

in these conversations with academics like yourself who have

created

OER. Is it a story of collaboration

and institutional support. NATEQUE: Absolutely. LAUREN: It's awesome

to hear those stories. I'm really curious to

hear about the

impact that this collection is having on students themselves. NATEQUE:

Excellent question, Lauren. One thing

that stands out is how the videos seem to give the

students confidence. I have had students tell me that before watching

the videos, they weren't really sure where

they fitted into the industry.

They knew they were studying construction management,

but they didn't fully understand

the different career pathways available to them.

After engaging with these videos, many started asking

different kinds of questions instead of asking. What job can I

get? They started asking what type of role

would suit my strengths or what skill should

I focus on developing? So you

can see their advanced

level questions they start asking rather than asking

the very fundamental question. I

remember one student saying that hearing graduates, I mean

in that participants,

some of them are graduates from our Deakin

University, construction management discipline. They talk honestly about their own

career journeys, made them realise that it's okay

not to have everything

figured out immediately. That really resonated with

me because sometimes students think

everyone else has perfectly planned career path.

In reality, many successful professionals have taken unexpected turns

along the way. For me, the

biggest impact has been seeing students become

more intentional

about their learning and more confident about their future. LAUREN: Right

on. Can you tell me a little bit

about how it's actually being

integrated into the learning experiences for students?

NATEQUE: That's a great question, Lauren. What we

did, we introduced these videos as part

of assessment items for two different units, one in post-grad

unit, one in undergrad, to develop their career development plan

as part of this. And also they

started seeing the some of

the skill sets they required where they're missing

currently or then requires improvement.

What are the career pathway choice for them

in terms of their strengths and how

they actually make sure they acquire

to their qualifications, of course,

through their courses, because we actually introduced the

videos in the first year of

their study so they can plan way ahead through their

assessment items to develop their career development plan, as in

5 years, how they want to be,

where they want to

see them in next 5 years. So that

helped them immensely build up their career development plan.

In the final year, in one

of the units, they started reflecting those

progress so far they had and where they

can still see were there any gaps

for them where they have to build through their

qualifications or through any further training or workshops.

Or that could be related to

their on job experience they gathered and they

can use it as part of their learning

process. So they have clear understanding of their planning. Of course,

they can, as I mentioned earlier,

they can twist it, but

at least they start

from somewhere rather than without having any plan.

They're sometimes struggling to understand where their

strength lies. So that's something we need to make

sure through this assessment that help them understanding where they

are at currently and in the future, how they

can acquire if it is

a software skill or it's soft

skills or it's a hard skill they really

need to develop or to get that entry level

position or move up the career for next

level if they're Master’s, how they

can do that. So that helped me in

the transitioning for them from one

step to another step. Some of the

students coming from another background,

especially in Master's program of ours, they switched their career from

other sectors, other industries to construction industry. And

they also help them, these career videos also help

them, of course, they have inbuilt soft skills from and which is transferable

from other industries they can

use. But how can they can tailor

to their CV and cover letter or even in

the career development that help them immensely to

understand that. I think those

sort of benefits, we can

get through embedding in the assessment, assessment, I think,

which is critical because sometimes summative assessment may give

the opportunity to student go with that

at the same time we can

actually assess that with how much they understand the

process. I think

this is also important rather

than just having it as

a formative assessment type of arrangement. LAUREN: So it's

the undergraduate students in the construction management program.

They view the videos as part of an

assessment, developing a career plan in their

first year. And then they come back to the

videos in their last year. Is

that right? NATEQUE: They come to the video

at the last year to understand where they're at so

they can reflect back through their journey through these

courses. And if they still see some gaps and how

can they actually work on

these gaps. Some of the gaps might be a

good gaps to have before

getting into the industry

because some of the gaps might give them

enough understanding through on job learning and

more contextual learning. Because sometimes you feel

you get a job,

different types of job you can get in the commercial sector,

residential sector, or civil construction sector. But those type

of job has got different types of

context in the job environment, which sometimes

good to have during your

working through the job. I think those

skills might get a better understanding about the job.

But still you have some fundamental

knowledge to start with and then you can work

around. So adaptation is

something and flexibility is something through these videos they

can actually get that sort of information.

LAUREN: So how many

students per year do you think these videos

or this collection is reaching through the Deakin

program? NATEQUE: Absolutely. I mean, it's through the Deakin program within

Deakin through these different types of units. At the

same time, some of the lecturers, I just forgot

to mention, some of the lecturers actually

approached me and they actually use these

as part of probably when

they create their assessment, not directly as part

of what we just mentioned of

their career development plan, but

role settings. So they use simulation type of

scenario type of analysis

in their role setting environment. So in

order to understand their role descriptions about this

particular role, they use these videos in

the context. So it's

more of indirect impact to them. Given that

scenario, the impact across directly, indirectly, within

Deakin, you can think about 200,

300+ students we already reach. And for

beyond Deakin, I think that something is growing

through different ways through word

of mouth or we talk about our OER opportunities with

colleagues from other institutions. They might have seen

some interest looking at our

videos and they also share with their own

students. Probably another 100, 150 reach out. Some of them are different

institutions within Australia. I know that some of

the colleagues already reach out

to me and request for whether they can use it.

Even though it's OER, it's a kind of courtesy

for them to reach out. LAUREN: It's

really cool because it's a video-based collection

that you can put it on YouTube and your license

obviously allows for that. And I can just

imagine how much easier it is for people

to find it and access it and engage with

it than a traditional resource or something that was just

saved in the repository. So it's very

cool because the video-based format lends itself to exist

in a space

where people are already consuming a

lot of content. NATEQUE: Absolutely, I agree.

LAUREN: I'm really curious, Nateque, to hear, you've already told

me a little bit about some of these teachers

that are finding the

resource and they're using it for, say, role-play and scenario-based teaching.

What impact has the OER, either the experience of creating

it or the experience of using

it in your own teaching, had on you as a teacher?

NATEQUE: I think

it changed me as much as it changed the students'

experience. Developing the videos forced me to

take a step

back and think about what students

really need beyond academic content. It made

me realize that employability and career development

shouldn't be separate conversations. They should be embedded

throughout the curriculum. Now, when I'm teaching, I'm much

more conscious of helping students understand why

they are learning something and

how it connects

to professional practice. The videos have also

created richer classroom discussions. Students come

into class having

already watched industry professionals talking about workplace expectations or

career pathways. So the conversation starts

at a deeper level rather than starting at the fundamental

level. I have also had colleagues tell me they

have found the videos useful

because they provide a practical

way to introduce career related discussions into their units as

well. It has been nice to see

that resources being used in different contexts and

by different lecturers. I feel that it really

impacted me heavily in terms of how I teach my

students. Because I started looking at, okay,

there are certain roles and the context or

the technical knowledge that I'm delivering now for

that particular role and how it's going to be

impacted their career

and that knowledge sets and how it's actually linked with

the industry. At the same time, what sort of

soft skills they really need to actually

make it more meaningful for their colleagues, how

they should communicate, what sort of

communication medium they should Just giving a hypothetical scenario.

If a specific context like there is certain

change in the construction like simple design change and how

you should communicate to the client, the architect

as well as your colleagues and those

subcontractors who've been involved. It's a simple

thing, but I think the complexity around that to

make it more structured, efficient way of delivering. I

think those sort of things, they started

understanding because they think about the role first.

So if it's just a project

coordinator role, so they think about the role and

the daily activity they have to deal with, they see

it more meaningful and they actually

be more engaged through the process because

they see the connection straight away, the theoretical

and the practical aspects of it. So I

think that's the biggest change in

my teaching after this project. LAUREN: This is

again another thing that I'm hearing throughout

these interviews is how these resources

that academics like yourself are creating are allowing

them to almost flip the classroom

so that the students come prepared

and the conversations that you're having with your students are so

much more meaningful and rich because they

have the conceptual information already rather

than you having to focus on

the

conceptual basics in class. NATEQUE:

Absolutely. LAUREN: What about creating the

OER? What was that like for you? NATEQUE:

All right. That's something I will always reflect back.

When I first started and in

my second projects, at the end of the

projects, the best part of that,

the collaborative approach that we used through

the process. The project wasn't just

about creating videos.

It became a partnership between academics, industry professionals,

alumni, and the professional staff at Deakin Digital Learning

Future team, as well as

Deakin Library team. Everyone genuinely wanted

to contribute because they could see how valuable

these resources might be for our future students. Another

thing I find exciting is the potential reach

of OER. Once you make something openly available, you

never really know who might benefit from it. LAUREN:

Was that something that you were already

excited about before the project even ever took

shape? Or was the potential of openly licensed resources

something that you learned about through

this process? NATEQUE: When we apply for this grant, I

think we did

some research about this OER grant and

its impact. Most of these OER outputs are

textbooks or it's

printed or sometimes it's online information for our students. But I think part of

the reason we as a group sit down

and think what would be the meaningful way or

most impactful way for us to think

about, okay, is it video or something we created

and that have long lasting impact for our students? Or

there's something we create a sort of

a book, open book for our students to have? The challenges

we found, that if we created the

open book and the visualization as well

as contextualization of our students to the industry context

where the real people talking about their

own journey, which might create more impacts to them.

Part of the journey that

we started and created, I think fundamental understanding in

one of our groups was videos

would be the way to go. Of course, we are very new

to that, as I mentioned earlier, in terms of

how you should record the session, editing the session. Without

the help of DLF team, I don't think we could get to that

level as we

are now. LAUREN: Looking beyond Deakin,

are you hearing any other stories about the resource

being picked up at other institutions? Has anyone written to

you to give you some feedback? Any other

stories of the impact it's having sort

of

beyond the immediate Deakin world? NATEQUE: Yes. As I mentioned to you,

the impact of this OER grant, how it's

impacted in different ways, it could be a

student from another university, or it could be a recent

graduate looking for career guidance, or it could be

even someone considering

career change into construction industry. And that's one thing I

love always about open education. It's the impact

doesn't stop at the classroom

door. It's beyond Deakin now. And perhaps the question

we don't often ask enough is: what

difference does career confidence make? So my view is that when students

can see a clear connection between their

studies and their future goals, they

become more engaged, more

motivated, more invested in learning. And that's

something really strikes me always. And one of the reasons I can

see, as I mentioned earlier, some of

the colleagues from other institutions reach out to

me about these career videos and how they can

use into their classroom environment. Sometimes they can use it in the

context of when they go to sort of school

outreach kind of environment where inspire

the next generation coming to

construction management discipline. You know, sometimes they started

showing the clips of the videos, the

role himself. And also the other thing, it's quite inspired

me always, the female professionals

in constructions. I think there is very limited

professionals, female professionals in constructions.

I think we need to encourage them more

and more to come to the construction industry.

In our videos, I think half of them are female participants.

So it's really good to see that

and it brings most, I think, future students

coming into construction, they're more inspired

by seeing female graduates talking about the carriers

so they can start linking them.

I think they start more motivated coming

to this sort of profession.

LAUREN: When I was watching the videos this

morning, I had almost the same thought,

Nateque. I realized that I probably held some stereotypes

myself about the construction

industry. And it was really heartening to see that kind of

representation in the videos and realize that the construction

industry is far more diverse than many of us probably

assume. So perhaps another one of the

impacts that your videos are having beyond

Deakin is breaking down some stereotypes

around who is in the construction

NATEQUE: Absolutely. Agreed.

LAUREN: Are there any other stories that you would like to

share about the collection of videos that you've

made? NATEQUE: I think I would simply say that the project

reminded me why do we what we do

as educators. At the heart of it, education is about

helping people realize

their potential. These videos are just one tool, but if they help

a student feel more confident, make a better-informed career decision

or see opportunities they hadn't considered before,

then they have achieved their purpose.

I would also like to acknowledge that many people

who contribute to this project, as I mentioned earlier,

but I keep repeating myself here

because it's important to recognize their contribution.

including my colleagues, industry partners, graduates, Digital

Learning Future team at Deakin, Deakin Library

team at Deakin, and their willingness

to share their experience is what made

the resources authentic and meaningful. If there is

one takeaway, I would leave listeners with, students don't

just need information, they need inspiration

and guidance. Sometimes a simple

story from someone who's walked a

similar path can have a lasting impact. That's what I

hope these OER resources continue to do

for many years to come. LAUREN: Oh, what

a lovely sentiment, Nateque. Thank you for

sharing that. My last set

of questions is sort of your overall interpretations. What do you

think your stories tell us about the impact

that OER can have on learning and

teaching more broadly? NATEQUE: I think

it's more of giving people access to knowledge, support, and

guidance that they may not otherwise receive. I also

think OER has an important role in supporting equity. Not every

student has access to professional networks, mentors, or

family members working in the industry. Open resources like

these help make that knowledge available for everyone.

The stories I

have heard suggest that students value learning resources

that are practical, relevant, and connected to

real world experience. They want

to see how their learning applies beyond the

classroom. To me,

that's the real power of OER. It's not

just sharing content, it's creating

opportunities for learning, growth, and connection.

LAUREN: Nateque,

my very final question. Do

you have a favourite part of the OER? Do

you have a favourite video or a favourite question that

you asked across the different videos? NATEQUE:

I think the question has been

tailored and it's been customised so many

times. I think all the questions are my

favourite and all the participants there, they're so

inspiring and motivating. Some of the students informally and

formally mentioned to me that they all actually watch all the

videos and found all the videos

as different perspective, different strengths

in their learning process.

So for me, the same,

I don't see any difference in those videos.

All of them are very good, high

quality and

content wise, they're

very rich. LAUREN: It's a bit like asking you to choose

your favourite child. It's

an impossible

question. NATEQUE: That's true. LAUREN: Nateque, thank you so much for

spending this

time with me this afternoon. I

have really enjoyed our conversation and I'm going to take

us out with Stories of Openness is

a limited series from the Open Education team at

Deakin University Library. It's part of a research-by-podcast

project led by me, Lauren Halcomb-Smith,

with Angie Williamson, Danny Johnson, and Eddie Pavuna.

We choose open wherever possible,

including Audacity for editing,

Castopod for hosting, and

music by Scott Holmes Music. This

podcast by Deakin University is

licensed under a CC-BY-NC 4.0 license. For more information

and full acknowledgements, Please see our

show notes. Thank you so

much for listening. Thank you, Nateque.

NATEQUE: And thank

you for having me again. LAUREN: You're

welcome. And we're done. NATEQUE:

Thanks, Lauren.